Personal Banking in China:

OE admin Mandy asked this question the other day:

roots mentioned in another thread that the ATM card issued by his bank in China won’t work overseas. Is this the case with all banks in China? Which of the banks are most expat friendly? What are the requirements for opening an account etc?

Which do you use and why?

My 2 answers, please excuse my language:

Chinese banking is so Fuked up that you notice even Jack is avoiding the issue.

Almost all Chinese banks are still nominally owned by Federal or Provincial governments.

The 4 largest banks in China are the ones you are most likely to see: ICBC, BOC, CCB, and ABC. Bank of China and Industrial and Commercial Bank of China been the most popular.

The most f*cked up part of it all is that money doesn’t travel, which created the current cash culture of Chinese economy. Getting money into and out of the country can be especially tedious, and stupendously time consuming.

Don’t expect ANY ATM cards or Credit Cards from Chinese banks to work outside of the country. HK, maybe, if you go to their branches. Chinese banks are heavily protected and extremely archaic (and nontransparent), despite the fact that they are listed on the NY stock exchange. RMB is a protected/controlled currency, which makes the whole thing even more cluster f*cked.

The reason you can’t use their ATM cards outside the country except maybe in HK is because (I am assuming) it’s a RMB account. Most RMB – foreign currency trades/exchanges are still strictly monitored.

Do what most of us do, get one Chinese bank account, and one foreign bank account from home. I lucked out because HSBC is heavily presented in Canada, HK, and slowly, China. A lot of expats rely on grey market money exchanges and Western Union to send money home.

As for the Chinese banks themselves, ICBC is the most popular, “common folk” bank, and BoC is probably ranked second in terms of presence and accessibility. All you need is RMB cash, a passport, an address, and someone to fill out the form for you to open an account. CCB and ABC are more specialized, and probably wouldn’t be as convenient.

All in all, a pea soup of cluster f*cking skull bashing lunatic doggery that is still pretending it’s the 80s.

I had to correct myself a bit upon farther research (btw, I am in no way endorsing CMB to anybody):

Anyway…, I got bored, so I looked into CMB’s services and offers. It basically boils down to this, certain Chinese banks have signed working agreements with various banks around the world, and some banks’ ATM will take a Chinese ATM card. The problem is still RMB. Since your account is most likely to be still in RMB, and you certainly can’t take out RMB, so you will get the an exchange equivalent. The highest ATM equivalent right now seems to be RMB 2000, which is about 2-300 USD.

What complicates things is that some Chinese banks have signed agreements with Visa or Master card. There seems to be an ATM type of card that is Visa certified or something that will deal in USD. What makes it even more screwed is that you can apply for a Visa itself, which should have been easier thing to begin with. But the f*cked up thing is that you seem to need an USD account to start with before you can even do this, otherwise you seem to need a RMB transfer payment plan in place.

Anyway, look for this symbol going outside the country:

银联

Your limit is RMB 2000/day.

QUOTE :
1、在境外哪些商户和ATM刷卡可以用人民币支付？
境外地区贴有“银联”标识的商户和ATM，均可以使用信用卡内人民币账户支付。
[返回]
2、在境外“银联”标识和VISA、MasterCard标识的商户和ATM交易，有什么不同？
1）支付货币不同。在“银联”标识的商户和ATM用卡，支付货币为人民币；在VISA或MasterCard联网商户和ATM用卡，支付货币为美元。
2）还款货币不同。境外地区的“银联”交易，客户直接用人民币还款；在VISA或MasterCard联网商户和ATM用卡，客户用美元还款，或申请人民币购汇还款。
[返回]
3、银行按什么汇率将交易的外币兑换成人民币？
按照交易当日国家对外公布的外币对人民币的外汇卖出价兑换。
[返回]
4、哪些信用卡可以在境外“银联”商户和ATM交易？
招商银行VISA信用卡、招商银行MasterCard信用卡、国航知音信用卡均可以在境外地区的“银联”商户和ATM交易，用人民币支付。
[返回]
5、境外是不是所有的商户和ATM，都用信用卡内的人民币支付？
在境外地区，只有在贴有“银联”标识的商户和ATM，才用人民币支付；其余商户和ATM刷卡，均从美元账户扣款。

For a list of countries or more info if you can read it:

CMB Link!

As for me? I’ll stick to my original advice. Keep your China/foreign accounts separate. It’s much more convenient and hassle free.

Check OE for original discussion.

Link!

Taxis in China

Have you ever taken a taxi in North America? (Sorry, I don’t have taxi experience in Europe)

Ok, throw that out of the window now. It’s not that Chinese taxi drivers aren’t as good as their North American counter parts (which are quickly being replaced by Indians in Vancouver), it’s just that the system and the training is quite different.

Most of the taxi companies in China are run like a cartel or a mob organization. Somebody with Really good connections to the local transportation ministry get a extremely lucrative, monopolistic license, and a heavy financing with the (still partially government owned/controlled) Chinese banks to buy the cars. Pick up some decent drivers, a training center, a maintenance crew and etc, viola, you got a license to print cash.

Therefore, it’s suffice to say that “flavours” and the “quality” of the drivers you get are extremely varied. A lot of them also skim on the side, which is a time honoured Chinese traditions whenever the top management demands too much tribute.

Take Beijing for example, (last I checked) it is now illegal for a taxi driver to privately run a vehicle due to “quality” and “safety” concerns. So most taxi drivers time share their vehicle with another driver with the both of them chipping in the “rent” each month to the Taxi company for “maintenance” and “management” fees. They are also personally responsible for the gas. This will amount to 2-3000 RMB a month for him to run that vehicle nonstop. If he is good, know his routes, know where to hit for his customers, learned to escape the traffic, and then maybe he pulls in 5-7000 RMB a month. His take home after all the hub-bob will be from 2000 – 5000 RMB a month working 12 hours shifts 7 days a week.

Why do I bother with that little anecdote of background story on the life of a typical Beijing taxi driver? Because, if you are living/working here, meeting a good driver is a god send. That’s why I want you to be nice to him(very rarely her) if you find the elusive old school professionals. I have probably ridden enough taxis in China to ride from New York to Vancouver, so I have seen it all.

So what should you do if you are hailing a taxi in China? These are some basic rules:

1. If you don’t speak Chinese, it’s preferable to have someone else tell the driver where to go or have the address in Chinese on a piece of paper. When push comes to shove, get your cellphone ready to call a friend who knows the streets.
2. Even if you speak Chinese ( a bit or a lot), it’s still probably better for you to ask if the driver is willing to go where you want to go at that particular time. Another reason to ask is because of the fact that there are a lot of new drivers these days. (I.E.: I am finding an increasing number of down sized bus drivers. ) Most of them (new ones) don’t know where the F**k they are going. It’s very annoying to get in, clicked the meter, tell him where to go, watch him go for 1 – 2 blocks and THEN tell me he has no idea where the stinking place is. Make sure you check first.
3. A way (in Beijing, not 100% sure about other places, since I have always been too busy in other places to chat with the driver) to check if he is a veteran or not is to check his taxi driver license, which should be promptly displayed in a plastic casing in the front passenger seat. The lower the number he has, the more experience he has. Check to see if it is current and if the picture matched the guy driving. Some veterans rent out their cars (not entirely legal, but if he wants to be home to eat dinner with the wife and kids, I can’t blame him) to younger drivers for a more reliable income.
4. If you can read it/see it, there should be a car inspection seal glued to the windshield on the driver/sometimes passenger side for this year.
5. You should always ask him to use to meter. No matter how much he insists, don’t deter from your mission, and you can always threaten to leave the car or call the complaint hot line. Most of the time when I tell people this, they are thinking this is to prevent him cheating. Yes and no. These days, you can make an OK living at this (especially if you were a farmer or construction worker), so there is less incentive to cheat you. And the policing of such matter is getting much better, trust me when I say that Chinese riders don’t like to be cheated any more than you (the foreigner) do. Another reason is below:
6. Always ask for receipts. All Chinese taxi meters should print out a receipt when he flips the meter back up. Most of them will have a Chinese girl’s voice saying in Chinese or English something like “Thank you for your patronage, feel free to comment, blah, come again”. The receipt is very important when you file a complaint or when you “gasp” lose Sh*t on the taxi (EXTREMELY common). This will tell you the license plate, the company name, what time you got on and off, and the fare.
7. Never get on the fake taxis. It’s never worth the hassle. Trust me. All those guys at the airport trying sucker you in, “Taxi, car, sir?” Ignore them, and pretend you have a ride already.
8. Off the top of my head, a taxi ride from the Beijing Airport to any hotel in town(unless it’s in the extreme south) shouldn’t be any more than 60 – 120 RMB a ride. You also have to pay the required 10 RMB toll both. Any more than that, and it’s suspicious.
9. This is just a personal pet peeve. If you are here on business, and your contact didn’t pick you up at the airport, expecting you (especially if you don’t speak Chinese) to find your way to the whatever bizarre hotel the secretary has kick back with in god knows where? F**K them. This is a basic Chinese courtesy. If he/she can’t even be bothered to send a person to the airport to pick you up, it’s just not worth it to continue your relationship with them.

I wish you luck in your travels.

Working in China (&Teaching English) Part 3:

This is part 3 of a long series on this topic, be prepared for acidity and jadedness:

Take all job offers (especially online) with enough salt to dry the dead sea.

Most westerners are hired for a few reasons in China, and here they are:

1. Mascot. You are the resident parade monkey they use to show off some aspects of his/her company. Be it metropolitan, cool, international, recognition, technology, or trustworthiness; there is something they need to put a foreign face on, and you are IT. Some people hated it, some people love it, and it’s up to you.

2. Technology Transfer. You may have worked in a company that has the technology/or just technical know how that they need. The requirements aren’t that technical in reality, you could have just worked in the industry and they just wanted to know how things were done over “there”.

3. Language/Communication Skills. Quite a few Chinese companies take over jobs from western service companies that works with multi-nationals or mid cap companies who aren’t interested or can’t deal with the complex bureaucracy needed in China to process certain things. They are often run by Chinese American(insert western country)s and staffed by high educated Chinese employees. But most of the time, they still have no clue how the “outside world” works, and they have trouble communicating what they can do, what is done and how the deadline works. Teleconferencing is actually a hell of embarrassment for a lot of highly educated/paid Chinese workers. Go figure.

4. Project Management. A lot of Chinese companies/people have trouble with this. This concept isn’t really very well understood in China. Even though China created the 4 great inventions of the world, when one speaks in terms of actual work, Chinese people are task(single goal), and routine orientated. Some companies or managers will run a project without knowing what the term means or how to take advantage of the available sources this sector has. You probably should speak a bit of Chinese.

5. Teachers. Most foreign ESL/English teachers are hired for a few things, mostly bragging rights and face time. It’s a very old cliche’ now for ESL schools to advertise that they have (in big and bright letters) FOREIGN teachers that teaches how many hours in their course. A few companies hire English teachers to upgrade their staff’s English levels, but most of the time, only the upper tier of service industry/or international company’s Chinese division that will do this. If you are coming here to teach, expect the competition to be fierce.

6. Deal with other Foreigners. A lot of Chinese companies don’t understand what western consumers want, which makes sense. These pampered companies haven’t really had to compete for every customer. Every market they ever entered had been a vacuum to start with. Customer service isn’t their strong suit. So what better way to deal with foreign customers than hiring foreigners? Expect to speak Chinese.

Don’t expect your contract to be sacred or to get paid (on time or at all).

Pay is a complicated issue in China. If you are coming here to teach English, and you are teaching in a private school in gods know where, there is a high chance that you might get cheated on your pay. NEVER tell any of your Chinese friends how much you make. The cultural landmines are surrounded by barb wires, lasers and sharks in moats. Leave it alone.

Is public school better? Well…, at least the promised room and board is real.

If you are coming to work in China, go through your contract VERY carefully. Make sure you have at least 1 copy of both English and Chinese version sign by both parties and possibly authenticated by a translator/lawyer you can trust. If it’s an important job, make sure important people know about it. You might want to give your home country’s business committee in China a heads up. Ask them about a good lawyer that you can trust, so you can double check that thing is kosher.

If you are going to work in a smaller city/town, be prepared to be a rock star.

Meaning, you will get stared at no matter WHERE you go. Most people find the attention flattering at first, until they learned that their friendliness actually have very heavy costs. NO PRIVACY. ZERO. NATA. ZIP. ZILCH. Hangzhou is NOT a small, backwards city. A black friend of mine who is from London can not go anywhere without gossip, pointed fingers, strange invitations to work for free, and other people TAKING his pictures. If you weren’t a private person before, you’ll probably be one after living here for a while. And if you have kids? Gods help you. This is, of course, assuming that you don’t look Asian/Chinese.

By the way, if you actually get to do the real job that you are hired to do, you have just won the lottery.

Exactly what it says. Don’t expect to do what you are hired to do, most of the time, the giddiness of having a (if you are the first or second) foreigner in their midst can be too tempting for all parties involved for any work to be done. And you will be surround with people, pounded with English questions, imitated, watched, and feared. Be on your toes, Chinese politics(people politics, not CCP) can be very nasty.

Of course, I am in no way saying all Chinese schools or companies are like this. But as Genghis Khan once said, “If you are cautious, 10 times aren’t enough to be trouble; if you are careless, 1 time is enough to kill you.”

And let me repeat this one more time for some out there:

China isn’t a place to escape a boring or mediocre life. I just don’t want to see another one going home 3-6 months, heartbroken, dream broken, life broken, bank broken, and drags his/her broken body home filled with menace and venom filled with misunderstood ignorance and hatred without realizing what this place can truly do for them.

I worked in Immigration for 4 years. I know how big cultural shock can be. No matter who you are. If you go on to live in a foreign land with a frivolous reason, you’ll probably regret it(hate yourself) sooner or later. Get your two feet on the ground first before boarding that plane in the air.

I wish you luck in your travels.

Teaching English/Working in China Part 1:

Another series that will probably run for a long time, and no matter how many times I repeat myself or scream myself hoarse, clueless people continue to show up all the time.

There was a discussion about this at OE, and this was my response to a young Canadian guy who just got off animation school and getting bored with his office life. He wants adventure, fun, romance, and a dream life! This was his original question, (I’ll not print the discussion in full, because it requires too many permissions, but I’ll give the link below):

I could really use some career advice here. I just finished 4 years of animation school and while it is only my 1st year working as a proefessional animator I’m only pulling in about 43K a year. . and this is in Canada were at least 20% of it goes to income and sales taxes. Also I am working long hours and don’t get much in way of human interactions. (And everone I talk to thinks I have the coolest job haha!)

Mekhong. . your situation in Macau sounds like a dream job to me! I’d love to live in parts of China or Taiwan and teach at a university level. . and your tax free salary and benefits are great, considering the lower cost of living in China (as long as you can avoid those casinos in Macau!)

This was my response(mekhong is another semi regular at OE):

ROFL. Me and Jack here can probably write a novel on why not to come to China with that idea. I have been home for a month and the fresh air, drinkable water, hot baths, clean public places, and healthy/clean food make it seem like paradise.

You just got out of school, so you are probably much BETTER off working in the local area or go to the west coast like Cali or Vancouver for the animation scene.

Don’t expect to be the fab 5 life style here. It requires a lot of currency just to stay at the current life styles that some of the average North American families live. China is still dirt poor. Some farmers make $200 US a Year. The leather jacket I bought last year on 50% discount is still worth much more than that.

It’s ALL about WHO you know in China. You’ll be surprised the amount of doors opened when I was working in Hangzhou for a while and told people who my boss were. Party secretary. If you know anything about China, you will realize the amount of power that holds, and I didn’t. It was the most enlightening experience.

As for your salary, expect the monthly salary range around 3-6000RMB, which is 400-800 US a month. My life style in Beijing is as spartan as I can get, and I was spending 5000RMB a month. Then again, I do live in Beijing, and I haven’t started counting rent. I do teaching for fun since it’s nice to have someone look up to you, but it’s VERY hard to make it a good living unless you live outside of the 4 major cities and the living costs are MUCH cheaper. I have my business and teaching is good for me to practice my presentation skills.

As for animation, don’t expect to get hired in China, unless it’s for publicity reasons. If that’s the case, expect to be paraded around town like a side show.

I tell this to all the people who are seriously considering here, Don’t expect China to be the golden land that will solve all your problems. Tibet is suppose to be the Shangri-La, and look what Chinese did to it.

And if you want some real advice? Go see a good Career consulor. Sit down, talk with him or her on what you really want to do. I am Canadian too. I see a lot of people like you in China. Most of them come back after 3-6 months. Life is VERY different around here.

As for the teachers that really makes money? Those Montessori guys/gals. They make US dollars and British pounds. That’s the real money there. Make foreign dollars and spend RMB. RMB is useless anywhere else anyway.

As an animator, I am sure you are aware of the amount of work that is farmed out to China. Guess why? Cheaper. Can you, without any social or financial support live with their wages while learning the language?

Sorry for the cold shower, but having high expectations of China is like the AT&T. They spent millions courting the Chinese and in the end the Chinese never bought a single switch. And never be the old Macdonald-Douglas. In the end, all they got was bankruptcy.

Jacks’ Response:

Most of the young foreigners here in Lanzhou stay for quite some time just for the lifestyle. The pay is good considering one generally works less than twenty hours a week and the nightlife can be rather entertaining.

As for starting a business here. My experience is that you need to know someone. I’d go with that recommendation of getting a teaching job first, woo the locals with your charm, make some good contacts and then you can get stuff done. I have a friend from Canada who’s in the oil business. It’s fair to say that he’s loaded and while everyone wants a piece of that it’s also not been easy for him to get his business off the ground because it’s all who you know here.

If you want to teach, stay away from the universities. They’ll suck up your time and the pay isn’t great. Find a small school, Dave’s Esl Cafe is an excellent choice to look, and make sure they provide you with housing and what-not. Then, take it upon yourself to make contacts. Spend time hanging out where the local business guys hang out. If you’re not just another amusing monkey for them then they’ll take you seriously and provide you with more work.

I know we sounded cynical and jaded, but we have been here for a long time, and we have seen too many people fail, scammed, ruined and being made fool of.

Working in China is a big commitment, ESPECIALLY Teaching. There are a lot of cultural strings attached to this job that isn’t well understood in the west. Confucius was considered to be the grand role model for teachers. There are a lot of cultural expectations for this job that is just not there for western societies. Real teachers will love it here. The students here are smart, hard working, respectful, and don’t really talk back. But given the same mindset, you as a teacher are expected to be their legal guardian of sorts. You are the consular, boss, manager, priest and parent all rolled into one. It’s a very tough job, and the parents/adult students can be very demanding.

And never, I repeat, never misunderstand the respect as adoration or love. Going out with your students is a very bad idea. Only 2 types go out with their “English” students. Arseholes and idiots. If you are an idiot, may Deity/Deities have mercy on your soul. If you are of the first type, expect to be lynch mobbed and tarred and feathered. Public opinions can move very fast in China, and should the government get involved, don’t expect anybody to save you. Remember, you WILL be caught. There is 1.3 billion people here, and someone will see you. Doing stuff like this also makes life very uncomfortable for the hard working expats trying to live a respectful life here.

Should you help to turn negative opinion/spot light on our expat community, don’t expect help from us. We will help them find you!

Original Discussion from OE.

P.S: The exchange rate has changed, so the salary is less now.

10 things you need to know before you get here in China, Part 1:

It’s my first blog post! (p.s: Most of these things are based on personal experiences, research, word of mouth, and a prolonged trial and error from many expats, so if you have heard different things from different people, you are welcome to share it/discuss it.)

Here we go:

1. Wash your hands.

Bring disinfectant wipes or soap. I can’t stress this enough. Please make a habit of this before you even set foot in China. Practice at home, and form a habit of washing your hands whenever you enter/leave public spaces. The official population of Beijing is 7.2 million, but if you include the farm workers, and people who doesn’t hold Beijing residency cards but works/lives in Beijing, it is closer to 20 million. Trust me when I say you don’t know where whatever you just touched has been.

2. Shots.

Get your shots at home. Check out the travel advisories from your home country on what shots to get. Hep B is a must.

3. Visas.

You should get your visa from a Certified China Visa (tour/travel) Agency. The general experience from most of the expats who have been through the ringer quite a few times is that if you go to the actual consulate offices, they are more expensive and time consuming. Hong Kong is a good place to start.

4. Check around before you book that flight.

Direct Flights can be a lot more expensive depending on your situation and where you want to go. Before you book that flight, check around. I usually avoid Air China, and China Eastern if I can help it. Their service are just…., not up to snuff. (Most “direct” flights to Beijing go through either Vancouver or Vienna.)

5. Cash is King.

Don’t expect shops to accept any forms of plastic unless you are in a huge international malls. If some small shops say they do, be suspicious. It’s very difficult( depending on where you live) to actually exchange for Renminbi outside of Chinese controlled territories. Ask first, but don’t expect anything.

If you can’t do it locally, H.K. is fine if you happen to pass through. They have an exchange place inside the security zone in the H.K. International Airport, so you don’t even have to go through customs. If you have to do it inside China, then go with the big banks. Bank of China or ICBC. Bring your passport and go to a big location where they post the rates.

Ever since China opened up the banking sector a bit couple years ago, you can now go to local banks’ ATMs to take out RMB using your credit cards and/or your local bank cards. HSBC, CitiBank, and Standard Chartered all have ATMs in Oriental Plaza, one of the biggest international mall there. (They are easier to find than the old stand bys in GuoMao/International Trade Center) Check to see if your bank has affiliation with any of the big four.

10 things you need to know before you get here in China, Part 2:

6. Hotels/Motels/Serviced Apartments/hostels.

Take your pick. For peace of mind and someone who Actually speaks English, go with a western managed hotel. If that’s too pricey, Super 8, Home-Inn and any of its copy cats are business style “motels” with internet, showers, and Chinese TV(but no free breakfast, computer, swimming pool or gym). Only Certified “International” hotels have a dish and are allowed to show English broadcasting. All Internet usage is monitored.

The starting price for Chinese style motels are $225 RMB(US $32.00)/night. The starting price for international hotels starts at $120.00 US. As for the ever popular hostels…, good luck. They ARE cheaper, about $125 RMB(US $ 18)/night, but you are crammed 6-12 per room and you have to share the bathroom with the entire floor. Most of them are converted dorms. Please make sure you check the geographic location of the place before booking.

7. A bit Beijing specific. Stick to the Subway.

It’s easy to understand, has English announcements, automatic payment, and a few volunteers/staffs who do speak some English. This is a pet peeve of mine, because I keep losing people who refused to listen to my advice and they almost always end up getting lost in Beijing. They really believed a map and a lonely planet guide will save them. Trust me when I say you should only use the guide as a short reference, not as the bible on how, where and what. China changes very fast, so something printed 2 years ago is probably already outdated. Try to book a hotel/whatever near a subway exit.

The last I checked, Beijing has 1000 bus routes/lines, with multiple same numbered buses going in different directions and ones that will and won’t stop on certain stops. They have not installed any English Bus Stop signs. And all announcements are in Chinese. They also have a complex ticketing system that requires Chinese language skills (and an arcane knowledge of the road names )if you are not on main routes. Asking for directions just brings more “Hey, can you teach me English?” people to your face. Taxis will have its own section later.

8. Don’t expect things to be Cheap.

If we use Beijing as an example, it is ranked #19 (2005) as one of the most expensive cities in the world. And a Gucci is a Gucci, unless, of course, you buy a Cucci or Guci(wink, wink).

9. Hustlers, thieves, scammers

and the rest of riff-raff. Comparatively, it’s getting a lot better. If you are visiting Beijing, the recent crack down has lowered some of the crimes that happens daily to visitors. Use general Travel caution, like use a money belt, hold on to your purse, move in groups, and never leave things out of your sight and double check before you leave any location or car.

10. Prepare for traffic congestion, pollution and strange behaviors on a grand scale.